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New PLO video, baby!!!

Discussion in 'Other Poker Rooms' started by Admin, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. Admin

    Admin
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    Botafogo is back with a new PLO video:

    The player being coached is Grinders.org member ThePower. This recorded session is split into two videos, posted together. First part is an analysis of HEM stats and the second part features reviews of interesting hands. Good example of how Botafogo conducts his lessons, plus an unexpected guest star appearance, sort of :)

    Enough said, simply head to the Video section!
     
  2. afrikana

    afrikana
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    :cool:
     
  3. wabbitt

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    nice :)
     
  4. Marticha

    Marticha
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    Okay, in b4 my post i want to tell you this, that i m not agreeing with you doesnt mean that i want to offend you or that i dont respect your game or you, or whatever negative shit can anyone come with :) . I just want to make a discussion and to see if i m verry wrong... :)

    The first thing that i see is fundametally wrong, very wrong imho !
    You cant say one what stats he must play with a accuracy of 2-3% i mean if one plays 30/15 yes, he might have some problems, but you cant say that HE MUST play 22/18 cause thats the way. There so much variables to consider and mostly so much diffrent styles which can be all very profitable, so you cant say thats better than this etc (in terms of stats). For example i will give the best guys in this game, Phil Galfond may play 16/14 and own in nose bleeds and Dwan may play 40/30 and still own, you see the diffrence is so big (thats NLH and its just for the example).

    The other mistake which in my eyes you make is, yes you say very good stuffs but most of them are for 100-200plo. At 25plo the game is so much diffrent. I mean in 200plo most of the profit comes from postion+aggresion+FE, and at 25plo cause the game is a lot looser-passive-stationer the profit comes from Equity and valuebetting and not bluffing the stations. Yes i think you can beat 25plo with stats like 40/25 vs some(most) opponents and at some(most) tables.

    I just cant agree with that there is only one way to be crushing the games, or there is exactly an accurate stats to the fraction that is the ultimate and so much better than others.
     
  5. Botafogo

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    Marticha, your concerns are all true and very valid PLO points, except for one thing. I would never ever say "You must play 24/18, or there is only one way you can beat the game." If I ever say anything like that I should not be coaching or playing PLO at all.

    This video is just an example of a coaching session with one student, who is very new to 6-max PLO, so I am trying to bring his game to the basic ABC, tight aggressive style, which I think is the best style to learn any game NL, PLO etc. It keeps you away from very marginal spots, it prevents you from making major post-flop mistakes by playing too many hands and too many pots, in which you are not sure what to do post-flop. I have other students who have played PLO for much longer and play higher limits, and with them the lessons and the hand discussions vary much more in styles and approaches to every preflop and postflop situation.

    This 21/17 type of starting style is just my philosophy of how a game should be learned. I do this with all my students and it has worked so far, which makes me think that there is some truth in it. When I feel like the student is very comfortable with the TAG style and with most of the important concepts, then I advise them to start opening up their game and try to merge to the LAG style if they feel comfortable enough. When they become better at postflop play and at playing correctly in thin spots, then they have lots of weapons, because now they can play tighter if the table dynamics requires it (lots of insane maniacs on table playing almsot every hand and getting it in with very dominated hands on flop), or they can play the LAG approach and run over the table if table is weak passive, or nitty.

    I cannot tell my student on his second lesson to try to play like Durrr 40/30 and own. When I learned PLO and when I was coached by very good players I played anywhere between 21/15 to 25/18, and I feel like it was the perfect place to start. I also started at PLO50, when I was first learning the PLO Fundamentals and it was the TAG style that helped me beat that level. Now I play b/w 35/30 and 42/30 most of the time, but I am experienced enough to switch gears if necessary and play 21/18 or even 33/18 if I find it the most profitable. They main money-winning consideration in PLO is to take good preflop decisions, which will set you up with profitable postflop situations. This obviously means that you cannot be playing one automatic style, because there are many factors which affect your decision preflop even with a hand like AA24 preflop, sometimes you may reraise with it, sometimes you may just call with it, and there are rare cases where you may even fold it preflop. That's why PLO is so interesting, because there is so much room for adjustment depending table dynamics, opponent history, ranges that they defend OOP, ranges that they call 3bets with, ranges that they stack off with on flop, how often they limp call preflop and then c/f flop, how often they c-bet etc. But before you learn how to exploit all that, you must learn the basics, this is true for anything you want to learn in life. Durr didn't jump in PLO playing 40/30, I can assure you this, and if he did he quickly found out he was making many mistakes, so he probably had to do lots of analysis and tighten up before he felt comfortable enough to vary his style.

    That being said, if I ever said in the video that there is only one winning style in PLO, than I must have been drunk under Scoty Ngyuen's influence :) However, I do not believe this, and if anyone got that impression from the video pelase esxcuse me.

    If some of my more advanced students would like to post here, they can tell you that when they were starting PLO - this TAG style worked for them, and now I think most of them often vary their stats depending on all the important table factors, and I have seen them play anywhere from 35/22 to 22/16 and winning in both situations.

    I hope this addresses your concerns.

    cheers,
    Botafogo
     
  6. Marticha

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    Really good post sir !
    You couldnt put it out better :)

    Yes, everything you say is exactly what i think, i guess i just misunderstood you in the video.
    And wanted to chek if i m right or wrong :)

    You really have great poker fundamentals !!
     
  7. Botafogo

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    No problem, Marticha. Thanks for all the good questions.

    I am actually VERY HAPPY that you stated all your concerns and tried to criticize some parts of the video, because this provokes a good discussion. So, I want to encourage people to post more detailed comments or questions about my videos. When it comes to forum discussions at grinders.org, I am here to answer and try to help all members free of charge :)

    So, this is your chance to get some free coaching. The point of the comments section of each video is not to just say "nice video" or "very nice, I like" :))) I appreciate your support, but don't be afraid to ask more strategy questions or present your points of view on certain hands or concepts that I discuss.

    I hope more people find the video helpful. Please, post suggestions for future video formats, if you want to see something specific.
     
  8. ShLiM

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    nice i love 2parts videos :D
     
  9. Admin

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    I copied the Marticha - Botafogo discussion over to the video thread, some great posts and I don't want them lost as news get pushed away :).
     
  10. Mitiozo

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    nice video.. more, more, more - Omaha is the future :)
     

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