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50NL Flop Spot

Discussion in 'Omaha Hand Discussion' started by piskun, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. piskun

    piskun
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    50NL Flop 3Bet Spot

    Hand History for Game 3256195774 (Prima)
    $50.00 USD PL Omaha - Thursday , April 08 , 11:14:40 ET 2010
    Table DeepStack Omaha 41 (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Seat 1: VlNCENT ( $39.30 USD )
    Seat 2: RocketQueen ( $79.84 USD )
    Seat 3: linnake ( $80.78 USD )
    Seat 4: TMS1234 ( $55.84 USD )
    Seat 5: mjforever ( $54.26 USD )
    Seat 6: Hero ( $50.25 USD )
    linnake posts small blind $0.25 .
    TMS1234 posts big blind $0.50 .

    Dealt to Hero: :5h: :Kd: :4h: :Qd:
    mjforever folds
    Hero raises $1.75
    RocketQueen calls $1.75
    linnake folds
    TMS1234 folds


    FLOP ($4.25)
    :7c: :8h: :6h:
    Hero bets $3.50
    RocketQueen raises $14.75


    No info for the player 8 hands played, this is one of my first hands at all so maybe it is played very bad.
    My decision was to fold I think that his range was higher Flush draw + open ended straight draw.
    I`m leading only if he had set with no redraws.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  2. Botafogo

    Botafogo
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    Tough spot postflop, indeed. However, the main concern here is the preflop open. In my new article that is almost finished on "Preflop Hand selection" I talk about common mistakes that starting PLO players, coming from NLHE background make, and one of them is raising a pretty looking PLO hand made of 2 disconnected NLHE hands. I would only open this hand from BNT, and maybe CO if BTN is not too agressive, but from MP your hand is too lose to open. What you have is 2 Holdem hands - 45s and KQs, and I know it looks pretty, but it actually doesn't play that well psotflop. In PLO you want at least 3 of the cards in your hand to work together like in JsKdQs4d for example, where you have KJ, JQ, KQ, and Kd4d. Also, in your hand suited to the 5 really hurts too. If it was suited to the Q and to the K it's much better, but still wouldn't raise it from early/middle position. Also, low connected cards like 45 often hit non nut straights and non nut draws.

    The hand that you posted is a perfect example of why your hand doesn't play well postflop. l mean you flop a straigh + a FD redraw, but it still feels pretty gross when you get raised on flop, because you could easily be against 2 higher straights 59xx , and 9Txx or you could be vs 2pair+ higher FD or set+higher FD where you are still an underdog, just because your 5high FD is rarely good when you get raised on this drawy flop by villain. Lots of NLHE players who first start PLO look at this flop and say "OMG, I have a straight + a FD...SHIP IIIT!", because in NLHE if you flop this your hand is a mosnter vs. villain's getting it in range, which could include sets, pair+FD, gutshot+FD like TJhh etc. In PLO if you are getting the money in on this flop against a solid player, you are going to be so dominated by his range that it is going to be a loosing play in the long run.

    If I were to get in this situation, I would c/c flop because I would hate to bet and get raised OOP with our hand that still has some potential, but you cannot profitably call the raise OOP because it's hard to get paid if you hit or bluff if you miss. Here I want to mention again that what makes your hand extra difficult to play is that you raised MP, and now BTN has called so you are OOP, which is very tough to play in PLO, so don't raise many marginal hands from UTG-MP. If you go for a check/call on this flop, many players will see your check as giving up with an overpair, and could decide to start bluffing, so you can try c/c flop and turn without bloating the pot too much and evaluate river depending on what cards fall and what villain does. Once you bet this flop and get raised you basically have no more options but you are put to a stack off/fold decision, and the hand ends here, so with start with a check/call in the future and go from there.

    I will try to post my Hand selection article soon, because I see that lots of people are starting to give PLO a try, but it is important that you don't make it a habit to raise mediocre hands, thinking that they are strong just because they look pretty.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2010
  3. piskun

    piskun
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    Thanks for comment - my decision was to FOLD.
    Anyway I just started to read slowhabit book and I realized that this raise is too loose and hand only looks good, but it is not so strong post flop OOP. I`m going to tight my range and will move down to 20NL till I adjust to postflop hand ranges and change my vision to Omaha HI.
    That was the hand that force me to turn off the poker client and download the book, it`s really useful one and I think only with reading it will improve my game a lot. I think I can stick to the 30 premium hands and will of course read your thread about hand ranges preflop.

    Thanks for the long comment, I`m starting to realize where I`m diving.
     

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